the future (#1258)
The First Cambrian Explosion
The Second Cambrian Explosion
(#1215) Higher Level Evolution - Second Cambrian Explosion
(#1221) Growth and Decay of Civilisation
(#1228) Informal/Formal Structures and Organic/Mechanistic Perspectives
(#1229) Transitional Phases are Unbalanced - with awareness we may participate
(#1250) Civilizational cycles and the direction of the process
(#1279) Underlying Context for the Discussion on Civilisation
(#1318) Sustainability and Balance of Power
Also see other excerpts from my discussions with the Society for Scientific Exploration.
Re: Can human civilization be recreated?
Wow! What a rivetting discussion. Just a few brief comments from me on several of the posts.
Re: msg #1251
I've started reading chpt 8 of your book (www.ascentofhumanity.com) - wonderful, wonderful ideas and well presented for modern minds. I whole heartedly agree with what I have so far read and have learn't much from it. It accords with my own thoughts but comes from such a different angle. I use ancient analogies of self and ego, of cosmic Oneness and egoic separation, of mystic awareness and mechanistic delusion - but these concepts are difficult for many modern minds to accept, hence I suspect your way of describing things may be the way to get the message accross to the masses!
A more mystical way of stating things can, for example, be found in the "Tao Te Ching":
"The Way is forever nameless.
Though the uncarved block is small
No one in the world dare claim its allegiance.
Should lords and princes be able to hold fast to it
The myriad creatures will submit of their own accord,
Heaven and earth will unite and sweet dew will fall,
And the people will be equitable, though no one so decrees.
Only when it [the uncarved block] is cut are there names.
As soon as there are names
One ought to know that it is time to stop.
Knowing when to stop one can be free from danger"
The 'way' is the rhythm and pulse of the living cosmos. The "uncarved block" is the cosmic Oneness that is the true essence of reality. The "myriad creatures" are the many egoic beings that effectively arise within the cosmos due to the perceptual illusion of separation. The 'names' are the mental distinctions that arise from the perceptual illusion. These names fragment reality and impose a narrow mechanistic misunderstanding over the intricate organic complexity of the world. This misunderstanding underlies countless instances of abuse that slowly drain the vitality of the world and lead to systemic dysfunction.
In terms of this context the way forward is to realise the inherent Oneness and to unite with it, leaving the illusion of separation and separated egoic agendas behind. Then all parts of the cosmos flow with the Way and there is harmony instead of cacophany, there is health instead of disease. If every cell in your body fell for the illusion of its cellular senses, developed an ego and started pursuing it's own narrow agenda based upon that illusion your body would become wracked with cancer-like disease. But there is no system of mechanistic laws that maintain your health, each cell simply follows its own inner law and perfect harmony naturally arises. So too with society.
Re: msg #1253
The available Naptha may have run out but this implies that the situation is different for each cycle but not necessarily impossible. Other ways can be found, there are many ways to skin a cat and many ways for civilisation to grow. The growing scarcity of easy ways out may lead civilisations to develop greater efficiency and respect for resources as suggested in (#1255). Compare modern consumer attitudes with the way American Indians utilised every part of an animal, and the way Australian Aborigines and Eskimos live in some of the harshest conditions imaginable, and yet still they developed rich and highly evolved cultures. It is possible. But you are right that there are not infinite ways in which civilisation can grow so these cycles couldn't go on forever, as noted in (#1256).
Re: msg #1252 and #1256
Beautifully succinct and to the point. I wholly agree with the general principles you describe.
Regarding the effects of TM and other meditative activities, are you aware of the experiments using REG's (random event generators) to measure the field of coherence that arises from such activities or any kind of focused consciousness. I think it was in the book called "The Field" that these experiments were described, if you're interested check out posting #1227 for the reference to it plus two other related and profound books. Also do a net search for REG and PEAR.
Furthermore, you say "In my mind we are all sparks of the god-force". We can tune in by "enlightened spiritual growth to connect to the higher source". We need "sufficient enlightened individuals [to] act together in a 'critical mass' to stop the freefall part of the cycle"
In the coming global challenges we need as much understanding of the holistic situation as possible and as many coherent ways of approaching the issues as possible. There is much profound wisdom contained in the ancient scriptures, that provide just the knowledge that we need in the future. But many of the ancient analogies are poorly understood today and the very language that is used has become so distorted that many ancient truths seem like nonsense to many otherwise intelligent, well meaning and concerned people. As well as the ancient sayings we need new analogies that resonate with modern minds, that shed light upon the old analogies and that open up avenues of "hard" scientific research that can help with the pragmatic implementation of the ancient knowledge.
In this context many such analogies are required. I propose one such analogy that I call the "computational paradigm" that draws primarily upon information theory, system theory and ancient metaphysics. In my own mind it draws all of the various issues and analogies into the one coherent context. It doesn't suit all minds, but those interested in mathematics, computer science, information/system theory, complexity theory, cybernetics, information physics, and so on may find it very meaningful. From this perspective it has the potential to be further developed into a fully mature mathematical science of complex systems that is based upon a profoundly holistic metaphysics. It's mathematical foundation has been imlemented in software which proves that it is coherent as well as giving rise to a revolutionary computational technology. I hope that there are some people here at SSE that are interested in such things and capable of helping to further verify it, develop it and spread the word to other such people. It may be a very important tool in the future!
I seek no ego boost from these statements; to use the words in chpt 8 of The Ascent of Humanity, I am just someone "who believed in themselves enough to devote years to the folly of their own imaginings". And someone who believes that "we need only, simply, to give and to receive. To freely give and receive requires faith that it will be okay. I will be okay. The world will provide. And that will happen when we stop seeing the world as a separate and hostile Other. That is the now-crumbling illusion that sets us in anxious opposition to the world." - Put simply, I am a humble messenger and I seek to deliver a message that I feel is of importance.
For a general discussion see:
For the "hard" details see:
Also see posting #1207 re: consciousness
(#1207) Paradigms, Consciousness and Non-Duality